Original Sources · Chapter 26

Rick Bright's Testimony

Film time 01:10:22–01:14:55 · 4:33 long. Watch the chapter, then open each original source it uses, right here on the page.

Chapter 26 · 0:00 / 4:33 · film time 01:10:22

Sources in this chapter (5)

Click a timecode to jump the chapter player to the moment the source appears. Sources marked “Play the original here” load the original footage from its host only when you press play.

  1. 101:10:22

    Written Testimony House Committee on Energy and Commerce, Subcommittee on Health Scientific Integrity in the COVID-19 Response Statement of

    Bright, R · 2020 · Government/official doc

    Rick Bright congressional testimony

  2. 201:10:22

    Protecting Scientific Integrity in the COVID-19 Response (Rick Bright House testimony)

    House Energy & Commerce Subcommittee on Health · Box · 2020 · Video

    Rick Bright House hearing video (Protecting Scientific Integrity in the COVID-19 Response); pairs with Order 254 written testimony

    Full hearing, May 14, 2020 (multi-hour); plays from Box.

    Source: Written testimony (Congress.gov PDF)

  3. 301:10:22

    Protecting Scientific Integrity in the COVID-19 Response (Rick Bright House testimony, Part 2)

    House Energy & Commerce Subcommittee on Health · Box · 2020 · Video

    Full video of Rick Bright’s May 14, 2020 House testimony (Part 2)

    Part 2 of the May 14, 2020 hearing (continues Part 1 above); plays from Box.

    Source: Written testimony (Congress.gov PDF)

  4. 401:13:44

    The Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA’s) Drug Safety Surveillance During the COVID-19 Pandemic. Drug Safety,

    doi.org · 2022 · Study/journal

    FDA safety surveillance of HCQ

  5. 501:13:44

    Document on accessdata.fda.gov

    Swank, K. and Mccartan, K · 2020 · Government/official doc

    FDA OSE safety review of HCQ (May 2020)

Chapter transcript
  1. 01:10:23 a company that stood to make billions from remdesivir.
  2. 01:10:26 Madam Chair,
  3. 01:10:27 on April 23rd,
  4. 01:10:29 CNN reported that you planned to call Dr.
  5. 01:10:31 Dr Bright to testify.
  6. 01:10:33 Dr Bright did not actually file his whistleblower complaint with the Office of Special Counsel until Tuesday,
  7. 01:10:38 May 5th.
  8. 01:10:39 That same day,
  9. 01:10:40 it was announced on social media that you planned to hold a hearing,
  10. 01:10:44 but it was not officially noticed until two days later.
  11. 01:10:48 To say this hearing is premature and it is a disservice to the investigations of Dr.
  12. 01:10:52 Bright's complaint I think goes without saying.
  13. 01:10:55 You've trampled on minority rights.
  14. 01:10:57 You would have never tolerated that when you were in the minority.
  15. 01:11:00 Will the witness be under oath?
  16. 01:11:02 We don't swear people in.
  17. 01:11:04 I'm hearing from a lot of doctors,
  18. 01:11:06 my state,
  19. 01:11:07 around the country,
  20. 01:11:09 who have experience using hydroxychloroquine,
  21. 01:11:13 and they're reporting significant benefit if it is used early enough in the course and may eliminate the need for hospitalization and ventilatory support.
  22. 01:11:24 I don't know if that's right,
  23. 01:11:26 but I think it's important enough that we should look into it and would just be interested if you did that as part of your duties at BARDA.
  24. 01:11:35 The gentleman's time has expired.
  25. 01:11:37 I believe it's important.
  26. 01:11:38 I've heard those anecdotal stories as well,
  27. 01:11:41 and they were not conducted in the context of a randomized controlled clinical study.
  28. 01:11:45 It's very difficult to understand data from those types of observational studies or anecdotal stories.
  29. 01:11:52 So the drug might have some benefit in some populations,
  30. 01:11:55 but we won't know that until we have that information from a truly randomized controlled clinical study.
  31. 01:12:00 What happened to you?
  32. 01:12:02 You were removed as a director of BARDA.
  33. 01:12:05 I believe part of the removal process for me was initiated because of a pushback
  34. 01:12:10 that I gave when they asked me to put in place an expanded access protocol that
  35. 01:12:16 would make chloroquine more freely available to Americans that were not under
  36. 01:12:21 the close supervision of a physician and may not even
  37. 01:12:24 be confirmed to be infected with the coronavirus.
  38. 01:12:28 When was the potential use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as treatment for the COVID-19 first brought to your attention, sir?
  39. 01:12:40 I believe it was probably mid-March,
  40. 01:12:44 between March 10th and March 17th,
  41. 01:12:47 somewhere in that time frame.
  42. 01:12:48 And not prior to that?
  43. 01:12:49 Not that I recall.
  44. 01:12:50 The first I heard of the drug itself was a call I received from Dr.
  45. 01:12:54 Woodcock at the FDA asking if I'd heard of the drug,
  46. 01:12:58 and I hadn't heard of the drug,
  47. 01:13:00 and I hadn't heard of its potential use for COVID-19 patients,
  48. 01:13:03 and I hadn't heard of the drug.
  49. 01:13:06 Did you hear that?
  50. 01:13:08 He just admitted that he never heard of hydroxychloroquine.
  51. 01:13:13 How is it that someone responsible for maintaining our response to a biological attack had never heard of this drug?
  52. 01:13:19 She said there might be something interesting to look at,
  53. 01:13:22 and she forwarded a manuscript,
  54. 01:13:24 a draft manuscript,
  55. 01:13:25 and that's the first I learned of the drug itself.
  56. 01:13:29 You weren't aware of any news articles and research papers in January discussing the potential benefits of the drug?
  57. 01:13:37 I hadn't heard anecdotal stories and reports,
  58. 01:13:39 sir.
  59. 01:13:40 You had?
  60. 01:13:41 I can't recall if I did specifically for chloroquine,
  61. 01:13:44 but I tried to track the media and the scientific journal as well.
  62. 01:13:48 However,
  63. 01:13:49 I rely on the guidance of the science within HHS,
  64. 01:13:54 and the first I had heard of that was from my colleague,
  65. 01:13:57 Dr Woodcock at the FDA
  66. 01:13:59 and then a summary report from our scientists at FDA,
  67. 01:14:03 CDC, NIH,
  68. 01:14:04 and BARDA that indicated that the evidence for its benefit was weak,
  69. 01:14:09 and the evidence for its safety concerns was stronger,
  70. 01:14:13 and they did not believe at that point it was something that should be supported.
  71. 01:14:16 What was your reaction personally?
  72. 01:14:19 Did you think it was something worth pursuing initially when you heard it from Dr. Woodcock?
  73. 01:14:26 Initially,
  74. 01:14:27 I said I do believe,
  75. 01:14:29 I mean,
  76. 01:14:29 I trust Dr Woodcock and her scientific judgment immensely.
  77. 01:14:33 We have seen anecdotal,
  78. 01:14:34 heard of anecdotal data from different physicians that they believe they've seen
  79. 01:14:40 benefit or patient improvement from use of this drug in either combination with
  80. 01:14:46 antibiotic azithromycin or a combination with
  81. 01:14:49 zinc or other vitamin C or other things,
  82. 01:14:52 but there was never sufficient evidence from a randomized controlled study to show its benefit would actually outweigh the potential risk.

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